Help on a custom mix for CrossFit training.

**p1mpedoutp1zza** · 12-14-2007, 01:46 AM

A formula for strength would involve a formula really focused around recovery and hormones. I have made tons of formulas for power lifters over the years. Here is a formula I would for a team of power lifters from Kansas.

25% soy XT
15% super plasma protein
60% Tri-FX.
aminogen

Now what is great about this formula is that the soy XT acts as an anti-estrogen, even though most people think soy raises estrogen, it doesnt.
Super plasma works great for strength
and the TRI FX does the same. Both are incredible protein powders that shows its results fairly quickly. Everyone I talked to using this formula tells me about strength increases and the team of power lifters who use it have been using it now for about 5 years straight.

Okay, So I was reading through the posts and I found this in response to someone asking about a mix for powerlifters.

I had a few questions regarding this...

Is this meant as a post workout shake? I was using the lab and selected post workout and the above percentages and your assistant informed me that my formula sucked as a post workout shake. Is this simply because she is programmed to recognize post workout needs for bodybuilders, rather than someone trying to gain strength and not necessarily mass?

I was also wondering if you would suggest something similar for someone who is using CrossFit as their training program? A friend of mine turned me onto both CrossFit and your site, so I am hoping you are at least somewhat familiar with CF...

If not, it is a mixture of Power Lifting (focusing on squat cleans, front and back squats, snatches, etc), Gymnastics (in the form on ring dips, muscle ups, handstand push ups, and other bodyweight exercises; not actual routines and crap...), and the occasional long distance effort (be it running, biking, rowing, etc).

Most CF workouts incorporate both metabolic conditioning and strength training, although certain days will be focused on one or the other.

The overall goal of the program is performance and function over "bodybuilding" type goals. Although I have gained 7 pounds of muscle on this program in the month I have been following it, going from 5 foot 5 inches 150lbs, to 157lbs...sadly still 5 foot 5. (And this was after not being able to gain weight on my traditional strength training program).

Well, as the post is getting rather lengthy, I will go ahead and finish up...

I feel that the needs of someone on CF would be fairly similar to a power lifter, But possibly more similar to an Olympic lifter...

Would it be possible for you to mix me up a concoction for both Pre and Post workout with these goals in mind (performance over mass, although I would like to gain some mass still because I play rugby, so it is more for functional purposes than to have "mirror muscles"), as well as the CrossFit program I am following in mind?

**AlexRogers** · 12-15-2007, 08:38 AM

The formula I gave you is for strength. The high levels of protein subfraction really increase the strength. Nothing comes close to this formula.

Postworkout supplementation most of the time involves carbs. Remember that the body's #1 concern is survival. And more muscle mass=more energy for one to live. The body doesnt like this and constantly tries to break muscle mass down. Anytime you exercise the body does into a catabolic (muscle wasting) state. To combat this you energy first. Carbs are the best source of energy. Taking in carbs immediately postworkout will give the body energy it needs. If you didnt take any carbs postworkout and just protein the body will sometimes use the protein for energy, which is what you dont want.

for postworkout i would use rilose, with hydrolyzed protein. (whether its the 1400 or peptopro

Usually for Athletic training which is what you are talking about you want more carbs than protein.

Most of the time I have formulated things like this for teams, universities, and endurance athletes.

70% Rilose
20% 1400
10% PeptoPro
carbogen

or 80% Rilose
10% 1400
10% peptopro
carbogen

You would use this pre and post and the other formula for during the day.

**AlexRogers** · 12-15-2007, 08:39 AM

Does the crossfit have a web link?

**p1mpedoutp1zza** · 12-15-2007, 11:39 AM

Their website is just Crossfit.com

Forgive me if these are stupid questions, I really don't know much about any of these supplements or ingredients...

Do I want hi GI carbs or low? If either would work just as fine, I would prefer low. But if flooding the system with High GI carbs works better then I will go with that...

And I usually mix my protein with milk that way I get some carbs and (some) fat from a natural source along with the powder...would that change the mix you showed me above at all?

Just to clear things up...you would suggest

70% Rilose
20% 1400
10% PeptoPro
carbogen

For before AND after workouts? A lot of people I know who do either CrossFit or track and field prefer to work out on a pretty empty stomach, but I like to drink a shake anywhere from 1-2 hours before I workout.

Then, after the workout I usually just have 12 ounces of milk right away as I am making a meal (usually something fast like a sandwich)...would this mix replace the need for the meal, or would it still be beneficial to each shortly after drinking the shake as well?

Lastly, would it be possible that I might want to use something different depending on what type of training I do that particular day? The CrossFit training is very varied...For example I follow a 3 days on 1 day off schedule, here are my last 2 cycles.

Day 1- Clean 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 (working up to max/failure)

Day 2- For time: 50 ring dips (much harder than bar dips)
Run 400 meters
50 Push-ups
Run 400 meters
50 Handstand push-ups
Run 400 meters

Day 3- With a continuously running clock do one pull-up the first minute, two pull-ups the second minute, three pull-ups the third minute... continuing as long as you are able (pull ups are kipping, not deadhang. This makes it both easier in the idea that you can do more in less time, and harder in the fact that it requires more entire body coordination and athletic ability. Not intended for hypertrophy as deadhang pull ups are)

Day 4- Rest

Day 5- Front Squat: 5-5-5-5-5

Day 6- Rounds of 21-15-9 reps: 225 lb deadlift and Handstand Pushups

Day 7- Snatch 135 pounds: 30 reps for time

Thanks for taking the time to look into this for me, and like I said, I really don't know what I am doing with any of the supplements, so your help is greatly appreciated.

**p1mpedoutp1zza** · 12-19-2007, 12:00 AM

And after the workout, would it be better to a shake made with, say half a serving of the mix and then eat a meal soon afterwards? Or should I just forget about the meal and try and make up for it with this stuff?

**AlexRogers** · 12-19-2007, 08:45 AM

Just to clear things up...you would suggest

70% Rilose
20% 1400
10% PeptoPro
carbogen

For before AND after workouts? A lot of people I know who do either CrossFit or track and field prefer to work out on a pretty empty stomach, but I like to drink a shake anywhere from 1-2 hours before I workout.

This is what I would suggest for muscle growth and strength GAINS. People that prefer to workout on an empty stomach do this because they think they can lose bodyfat more easily because the body has NOTHING in its system ie food and they will burn fat. true but not really. they are probably sacrificing more muscle mass because right off the bat they are in a catabolic state. The 2nd reason is because using a drink with glucose might just upset their stomach.

Using the formula I gave you the rice should be easier on your stomach and the peptides will keep you from going catabolic. This way maybe 40 minutes into your workout you can still bang out sets and workout intensely whereas the next guy with an empty stomach is struggling to be intense

Then, after the workout I usually just have 12 ounces of milk right away as I am making a meal (usually something fast like a sandwich)...would this mix replace the need for the meal, or would it still be beneficial to each shortly after drinking the shake as well?

I wouldnt suggest this. The milk really doesnt provide enough carbs to make it work it. Instead you want to REHYDRATE after workouts. mix my formula with at LEAST 20 oz of water and even though I dont have it right now get some electrolytes. (I might have them soon). This is the ONE time I suggest using a powder over a meal. Postworkout.

lastly the formula would not different with your workouts

**p1mpedoutp1zza** · 12-19-2007, 04:30 PM

Okay, just two more questions...heh. Sorry to keep bringing more stuff up:

1. What serving size would you suggest for this? For reference a 50g serving contains
calories 175
calories from fat 5
carbs 35.1g
sugars 33.9g
protein 12.7g

So, in order to get enough nutrition post workout would i need to, say double this? That way I'm getting 350 calories?

2. How long after the shake do you suggest eating a real meal?

**AlexRogers** · 12-20-2007, 09:06 AM

Everyone takes different amounts of carbs. I would suggest at least 60 gram of carbs. thus about 3/4 cup.

Between the shake and the meal. really doesnt matter, its insignificant

**crossfitchris** · 12-20-2007, 05:21 PM

CrossFit is big on the Zone diet, so for a meal on the go, you'd want to adhere to the 40/30/30 ratio (C/P/F respectively). This is only if you're following the Zone, which I grew tired of (too much measuring).

Another thing, CF and the Zone don't care much for high-GI carbs, but once Alex's awesome Fruit/Veggie powders come in, I'd highly invest in those. Definitely use his bioactive protein powders too (Tri-FX and Plasma protein).

There's an article on Mauro DiPasquale's MetabolicDiet.com that suggests removing a carb source from a PWO shake and instead only ingest protein and fat (if you're fat adapted).
http://www.coachsos.com/article.asp?...article_id=931

I try to fast 15hrs. (beginning at the end of last meal) before I hit a workout. By training on empty, you're able to manipulate your Peripheral Nervous System, more specifically your Sympathetic and Parasympathetic nervous systems. Really gets those hormones working for you. While fasting, your Sympathetic division is "in command" (think fight or flight response). Generally your Parasympathetic division is active when you eat, which is why people tend to get sleepy after eating a meal. If you're not a diabetic, and in pretty good shape, I'd suggest that you try intermittent fasting for a month or two, see if strength increases and your times go down.
Some guys even suggest avoiding a PWO shake or meal every now and then, apparently it's anti-inflammatory. I won't argue for or against that idea, seeing how I haven't experienced any benefits from it.
But be sure to check out Art DeVany's website and Robb Wolf's Intermittent Fasting article on PerformanceMenu.com for more info on IF.

While I was on the zone, I put on some LBM even though my diet could've been considered "hypocaloric." Guess I just needed those extra pounds to survive, haha.

**p1mpedoutp1zza** · 12-20-2007, 06:35 PM

To be honest the idea of IF does not look particularly inviting to me...I typically try and eat every 2-4 hours. And I prefer to workout with a shake in me. Usually solid foods prove to be too much, but I feel like with a shake (usually made with milk and totaling about 2-300 calories) about 1.5-2 hours before working out i am more focused and what not.

Hmm, I have a lot more to say on the subject as well as the zone/paleo business, but I really don't feel this is the most appropriate place to be having it lol. Don't want to flood a protein forum with such nonsense. I will go ahead and PM you with my e-mail.