Training in AM on Empty Stomach

After reading the David Barr article Alex posted today, I wonder what he would say about am. cardio in a fasted state. My guess is that he'd say there's no advantage in terms of fat loss and that it's catabolic. I say this because he mentioned that one of the best times to ingest a hydrolyzed protein is upon waking. I've been waking, then running, and then taking my hydrolyzed protein. Seems to help with fat loss, but I don't want to do it if I'm losing equal amounts of muscle. Opinions anyone?

Thanks!

I would personally never work out on an empty stomach...your body is going to burn something for energy if not food or protein...obviously that leaves several endogenous forms of energy to feed on, fat, glycogen, and muscle. I suppose a good question to ask would be what does a persons body consume first in a food deprived state? Wouldn't it be great if your body only consumed fat?

i remember watching on discovery health. it was a show about people that shouldn't be alive and they were out in the wilderness and it was talking about the science of their survival. i remember that the body first tries to eat the muscles because i know that it requires more energy to sustain compared to fat. also the body would try to preserve the fat in case you get cold. so the body is trying to help you survive by eating your muscles.

so that being said, even though i personally run on an empty stomach, it would be most beneficial to take about 10-15g of protein before the activity for energy. but since it is not a life or death situation, i believe you will burn both muscle and fat by running on an empty stomach.

Interesting stuff . . . Maybe I'll have some Hydrodipeptides or PeptoPro first in the future. I definately don't want to lose muscle. But I must say, the fasted running has accelerated fat loss for me. I don't think I've lost a substantial amount of muscle, but it's so hard to tell, even with bodyfat testing, etc. Thanks for the input guys!

Personally I use a formula that is close to torque and I take it upon waking up. It helps to improve my performance in either the gym or running so too me it has helped to lean me out. I have gotten numerous comments on my size gains and fat loss. I take the pre and post workout shake and then nothing until lunch and it is working for me. Going running on an empty stomach will degrade your performance, if you take a good formula before running watch your performance improve which will equal more calories being burnt up.
The torque formula I use is
70% rilose
25% hydro 520
5% super bovine
no sweetner

That's a really good idea, looks like a great formula. (I'm sure when I was doing the fasted cardio everyday that I probably lost some muscle in the process, which makes me sad. I didnt' think I was, but based on everyone's feedback here, I probably did. Obviously bodyfat testing would be the way to tell, but I don't belong to a gym, so it never seemed practical. I was just going by my strength gains and the way I was looking. Now that I'm just trying to maintain my weight and body comp, I'll go with a mix like that . . . Thanks!

I got my body fat measured recently by hydrostatic weighting and measured 14% body fat, they do the caliber method at the same time and I got 11% body fat. I big difference between the two methods.
I have been impressed with the results of PF products since I have started using them. Since I'm really lucky I can get the body fat testing done for free so I'm getting it done every couple of months.

Very cool. So do you have to hold your breath for awhile while they measure your FFM underwater? On T.V. they always show the athlete seemingly holding their breath . . . How long are you underwater for?

You sit in a harness with just your mouth above water and you slowly curl forward into the fetal position and expel all the air out of your lungs at the same time. Once the bubbles are gone the tester marks the recording and tells you to come up. You are under water for no more then 15 seconds, but you must control yourself while in the tank of water. The less you disturb the water the better this helps to ensure you get the most accurate measurement possible. You must also expel as much air out of your lungs as possible once submersed. Normally you have to repeat this procedure 5 to 8 times and then the test is done.

Interesting . . . thanks for the explaination--I've always wondered.